EDITOR'S NOTE : In the Bombay programs, Sant Ji held a
mid-day Satsang for westerners which Pappu translated into
English, while the longer evening Satsangs, given in
Punjabi, were not translated.
like to thank the Master for being here -- our being here
and His being here. I have a question about watching Master,
or listening to the Satsang we've had every night this week.
I don't understand the language, but I feel that it's most
important that I sit at attention and listen to Master's
every word and watch His every movement. I was wondering if
this can be related to an external meditation in which I'd
be sitting still focusing on the Master's face, and if He is
communicating with my soul or the souls of the satsangis as
we watch Him, even though we don't understand His words?
matter how much darshan of the Perfect Master we get, even
if it is more and more, still it is [never enough]. Because
through His darshan Master removes the dirt of ages and
ages, of birth after birth. That is why, even if we spend a
lot more time in the darshan of the Master, still we will
say that it is not enough.
will say that it is better for those people who do not
understand the language to sit there and have the darshan,
because they are concentrating more than those who do
understand the language. Those who understand the language
sometimes move to this
or that side. Sometimes they look at their watch and see how
much time is left. Sometimes they do other things, and they
do not concentrate as much as the people who don't
understand the language. [laughter]
think that it is better not to understand the language
because the happiness which one gets by concentrating on the
Form of the Master without understanding the language is
greater than the happiness we get when we understand the
very grateful to my Supreme Father Kirpal Who also gave me
such opportunities. I used to say in front of Him, «O my
Beloved, it is my desire that I may sit in front of You
always and see Your beautiful form.»
far as language is concerned, it is not difficult for a
perfect Master to talk with a dear one in his language, but
it is not in the Will of God that the Saints and Mahatmas
should perform miracles in this world. That is why they do
not do that; they do not perform any miracles. Otherwise, it
is not difficult for Them to talk in the language of Their
disciples; They can easily do this.
one of the earlier messages, which was published in Sant
Bani Magazine , I said that the place where soul meets
Oversoul, or the place where soul talks to Shabd, there no
Pappu is needed for translation. [Sangat laughs] Because the
soul has to talk with Shabd in her own language and there
nobody's help is needed.
depends upon the receptivity of the people. It differs from
person to person. Many times in interviews dear ones say,
«We don't have any questions. Please let us sit in front of
You and look at You and have Your darshan.» They ask for
that only because they get something from having the darshan
of the Master. They enjoy looking at the Master more than
they would enjoy talking with Him. Even in this group there
are so many dear ones who did this. They prefer to keep
quiet and have the darshan instead of talking.
understand the real value of darshan, and if we realize it,
then every moment we can see unique and beautiful things.
like to ask You a question about Simran. This morning when I
was meditating, I did something different. I tried to
concentrate better: I took one breath and I tried to do one
Word with one breath, then let the breath out on the second
Word. I tried that for a while, then afterwards I tried
doing all five Words in one breath, and it wears out.
[laughter] And I started visualizing waves, and I could feel
Master Kirpal's presence kind of guiding me, like an
orchestra conductor -- one wave after another. Is it good to
do the Simran one Word for each breath? Or should you do all
the five Words with each breath in and then each breath out.
Or does it make any difference?
you will remain aware of your breathing, you will never
become completely successful in doing the Simran. Because if
you will do the Simran breathing in and breathing out, your
attention will come in when you breathe in, and when you
breathe out, your attention will go out. So it will come and
go and in that way you will not be able to concentrate. No
matter if after some time you get some intoxication and you
love to do that; still you will never become completely
successful, since your attention will always go into your
Whenever you sit for meditation, forget yourself completely
and concentrate at the Eye Center. Your Simran should go on
happening with your tongue of thought.
Ji, I read in one of Master Kirpal's books that the lower
beings, the plants and animals, couldn't make karma or
didn't make karma, that they're only burning off karmas in
those bodies. If this is true, I don't understand what the
karma is that we're all working off in our human forms.
Could you explain that?
Unless we pay off the karmas, we can never finish the
karmas. And they are paying off their karmas. When all their
karmas get paid off, then they get the human body.
do the karmas get made?
they come in the human body. [Pappu explains: Before getting
those lower bodies they were in the human bodies, in which
they made their karmas.]
you think about the karmas we make, if we think about all
the things which we do in our day-to-day life, if we sit
down patiently and think about it, we may say that it is
just a little act, or a little deed. But the consequences or
the result of every single karma, every single deed you do,
is very severe; it is very heavy to pay.
Regarding the karmas, Master Kirpal used to often quote the
story of King Nero who burned the city of Rome and was
enjoying playing the flute. You see that in the city there
were so many souls, so many men, women, so many lower bodies
-- animals and everything. How heavy or how a hard karma he
made for himself!
the morning Satsangs we've heard about Baba Somanath's first
meeting with Master Sawan Singh. I was wondering if You
could talk about Your first meeting with Kirpal, what Your
experience was like.
first meeting with Master Kirpal Singh -- regarding that,
everything has been published in Sant Bani Magazine and you
should read that. Because it was not me who arranged that
meeting: it was He Himself Who allowed me to meet Him.
Because ever since my childhood I had this desire to meet
the Master. I always was thinking, «Will I be that most
fortunate one to meet some Master like Guru Nanak or Kabir?»
you will read Sant Bani Magazine you will come to know how
long the preparation was, and how long the yearning was
there in my heart, and how my heart was burning and the
thirst was there. And that is why Supreme Father Kirpal came
down to quench my thirst; He came down to cool my heated
Darshan at SKA
Mr. Oberoi's Satsang the other night, he said that a
satsangi would have to answer to the Lord of Judgment if he
went back to eating meat or things like that. That seemed to
contradict what was in the Anurag Sagar, because that book
says that Kal doesn?t have anything to do with satsangis.
depends on the Will of the perfect Satguru. If He wants He
can send the soul to the Lord of Judgment. If He wants He
can forgive him.
Through the Satsangs, and even at the time of Initiation,
Masters tell us that we should abstain from such things. We
should not eat such things, and not do like that. Just
imagine, if we will not obey the commandments of our Master,
will He be pleased with us? He even gives His own earnings
to the satsangi or to the child who is obeying His
commandments. When He can do this, you can just imagine what
else He can do when He sees anyone not obeying His
Negative Power does not give any concession, He does not
forgive any karmas which are made in this world. Either the
disciple has to pay off that karma or the Master [has to].
Lord of Judgment and the Negative Power cannot even touch
the satsangis of the perfect Master, because it is a promise
which They have made to the Master Saint that if They catch
or if They imprison even one soul initiated by the perfect
Master, the perfect Master will go and empty all the hells
of the Negative Power. So that is why He never takes a
chance; He never touches any satsangi of the perfect Master.
And Master does not have such a Will to send his souls to
the Lord of Judgment. He never sends the souls to the Lord
of Judgement, because you know that if any child does not
obey his father, the father does not send his child to
anybody else for punishment. He himself punishes him. And
the souls who do such bad karmas, Master forgives them and
He does not let them go below the human body.
know that if you transgress the laws of Nature, you must get
punishment for that because you cannot challenge the laws of
nature. Whatever wrong you have done in this world, you will
have to suffer for that, you will have to get punishment for
that. In the same way, Saints never want that in the world
there should be corruption in Their name. That is why They
never allow anyone to eat meat and drink wine and do such
things. They want that the world should not be corrupted.
Because if They allow Their satsangis to eat meat and drink
wine and still say that it is good, it means that they are
corrupting the whole of society. How can you follow the
Master, how can you claim that you are doing the devotion of
Lord and at the same time do all the things which the
worldly people are doing?
should read the book The Ocean of Love (the Anurag Sagar of
Kabir) thoroughly and you will not find that it is written
that Satguru sends those satsangis who eat meat and drink
wine and do bad karmas to the Negative Power or to the Lord
of Judgment. It is not written like this in there. It is
written that Satguru never sends His disciples to the Lord
of Judgment. But it does not say that He will forgive those
who are eating meat and drinking wine.
do we do when we read the banis or writings of the Masters?
We do not understand the real essence as it is written
there, but we twist the writings of the Master and we
understand them according to our own convenience.
Master, I feel that [after] You shower grace on me my mind
works extra hard. It seems like all I do is flare up and get
very critical, and I feel like I'm always losing anything
You give. Is that an illusion or is that the battle that we
have to fight?
have often said this, that the mind will not let any
opportunity go out of his hand without utilizing it, because
he is always with us.
such an opportunity comes, when we know that the mind is
going to attack us and he is going to make us lose our
faith, at that time you should attack the mind. You should
become careful and you should know that he is going to
attack you. So at that time you should attack your mind back
with your full force and with full Simran.
Master, with regards to attacking the mind, Guru Nanak
said, «There is no high, no low; no good, no bad. It's all
according to Your Will.» If we, like a soldier, look at the
mind and attack him, You're telling us to do something,
realizing that this is our karma that we have to pay off.
It's a lesson in life that we have to learn. If we don't
take the credit or the blame, is that neh-karma?
[Pappu: Can you simplify your question?]
it make karma to not take the credit or the blame for any
deeds that we commit?
will try to explain this to you giving a worldly example.
Suppose there is a thief and he has stolen some things. If
he does not take credit for the deed which he has done, do
you think that if he is caught he is not going to get the
punishment for that? In the same way, if there is a murderer
who says, «I am not taking credit for the deed which I have
done,» the government or the law will not forgive him: he
will definitely get the punishment. So in this world, if you
have done any bad deed, you will get the punishment for it;
if you have done any good deed, you will get the prize for
Master, You have always done Your best to answer questions
in relation to the disciple's relation to the living Master.
I wondered if You could explain the [difference], if there
is any, in the living Master's relationship to His own
disciples, to the disciples of His own Master, and to the
disciples of Baba Somanath Ji.
difference is only in our understanding, because there is no
difference for the Saints. They look at the souls of
everyone and They know that the soul is innocent. All the
bad faults or bad qualities are in the mind, and They never
pay any attention to the mind. They look at the souls and
there is no difference in that.
know that the sun shines on every part of the creation. The
sun never says, «I will not shine on this part or I will not
shine on that religion or that community.» He does not feel
any difference and that is why he gives his radiance to
everyone in this world.
the same way, for the Mahatma who has reached Sach Khand,
for Him no one is different, everybody in this world is
equal. The only difference is that He takes the
responsibility of those dear ones whom He has initiated and
He is responsible for them. And other dear ones, the other
people of the creation, those who have His darshan with
love, those who believe in Him, those who are praising Him,
He takes responsibility for them, also. The other people --
those who do not have His darshan with faith in Him, those
who do not believe in Him, or those who do not hear Him --
they also get the grace of the Master, the only difference
is that the Master does not become responsible for them.
Master always bows down to the initiates of His own Master
because He sees the Form of His own Master within each of
the initiates of His Master. That is why I always bow down
to those who are initiated by my Master, Kirpal Singh. Kabir
Sahib said that those who understand a difference between
one Saint and another, they will go to hell.
feel that You try to increase the love we have for our own
Master through the love we experience from You. Is that
that is true.